[ANNOUNCE] Velocity Engine 2.0 RC6 test build available

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[ANNOUNCE] Velocity Engine 2.0 RC6 test build available

Claude Brisson-2
A new test build of Velocity Engine 2.0 is available (RC6).

No determination as to the quality ('alpha,' 'beta,' or 'GA') of
Velocity Engine 2.0 has been made, and at this time it is simply a "test
build". We welcome any comments you may have, and will take all feedback
into account if a quality vote is called for this build.

Release notes:

*
https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/velocity/velocity-engine/2.0/release-notes.html 


Distribution:

  * https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/velocity/velocity-engine/2.0/

Maven 2 staging repository:

  *
https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachevelocity-1016/

A vote regarding the quality of this test build will be initiated within
the next couple of days.

Release Candidates changelog:
   RC1: initial candidate
   RC2: bugfixes
   RC3: review SLF4J Logger names (instead of a single logger named
"Velocity", have a hierarchy of loggers with a base of
'org.apache.velocity')
   RC4: minor fixes
   RC5:
    * the default encoding is now UTF-8 (and not the platform default)
    * commons-collections is not any more a compilation dependency
    * commons-lang3 dependency is not any more shaded
    * the configuration API doesn't reference ExtProperties
    * the events API has been optimized and reviewed: all events do
receive the current Context
    * there has been a few optimizations in ASTStringLiteral rendering
RC6: mostly code cleaning and build process optimization ; assembly
module has been dropped


Regards,

   Claude


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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Velocity Engine 2.0 RC6 test build available

Michael Osipov
Am 2017-01-26 um 04:39 schrieb Claude Brisson:

> A new test build of Velocity Engine 2.0 is available (RC6).
>
> No determination as to the quality ('alpha,' 'beta,' or 'GA') of
> Velocity Engine 2.0 has been made, and at this time it is simply a "test
> build". We welcome any comments you may have, and will take all feedback
> into account if a quality vote is called for this build.
>
> Release notes:
>
> *
> https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/velocity/velocity-engine/2.0/release-notes.html
>
>
> Distribution:
>
>  * https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/velocity/velocity-engine/2.0/
>
> Maven 2 staging repository:
>
>  *
> https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachevelocity-1016/
>
> A vote regarding the quality of this test build will be initiated within
> the next couple of days.

Hi Claude,

first of all, great improvement. Just checked the diff and have a few
comments:

* Left a bunch of comments on the commits on GitHub, have a look
* StringUtils#EOL is never used
* StringUtils#normalizePath() can likely be replaced with Common IO's
FilenameUtils#normalize()
* StringUtils#nullTrim() can be replaced with Commons Lang's
StringUtils#trim()
* StringUtils#trimStrings() can be disposed altogether because it
iterates the list and it is iterated right after the call again. Use
StringUtils#trim() during the real iteration directly
* OSGi metadata are gone from Core, no Bundle-SymbolicName, no Exports,
everything is gone from MANIFEST.MF
* There are several spots where collections are iterated with a for loop
with a counter and #get(i) or a literal (legacy code). This should
generally be avoided. One example has been commented on GitHub.
* Terrific improvement on the JavaCC code generation!
* JavaCC tells me:
> Note: UNICODE_INPUT option is specified. Please make sure you create the parser/lexer using a Reader with the correct character encoding.
> Warning: Choice conflict in [...] construct at line 1325, column 21.
>          Expansion nested within construct and expansion following construct
>          have common prefixes, one of which is: <TEXT>
>          Consider using a lookahead of 2 or more for nested expansion.
> Warning: Choice conflict in (...)* construct at line 2157, column 5.
>          Expansion nested within construct and expansion following construct
>          have common prefixes, one of which is: <WHITESPACE>
>          Consider using a lookahead of 2 or more for nested expansion.

Is this something one needs to take care of?


Michael

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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Velocity Engine 2.0 RC6 test build available

Greg Huber
In reply to this post by Claude Brisson-2
Hello,

I use the taxen task, and now have a local copy as its no longer supported.

What would be an equivalent to .fileContentsToString(..) as its now missing?

org.apache.velocity.util.StringUtils

value = StringUtils.fileContentsToString(
                                        getProject().resolveFile(value)
                                                .getCanonicalPath());

Cheers Greg



On 26 January 2017 at 03:39, Claude Brisson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> A new test build of Velocity Engine 2.0 is available (RC6).
>
> No determination as to the quality ('alpha,' 'beta,' or 'GA') of Velocity
> Engine 2.0 has been made, and at this time it is simply a "test build". We
> welcome any comments you may have, and will take all feedback into account
> if a quality vote is called for this build.
>
> Release notes:
>
> * https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/velocity/velocity-eng
> ine/2.0/release-notes.html
>
> Distribution:
>
>  * https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/velocity/velocity-engine/2.0/
>
> Maven 2 staging repository:
>
>  * https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapache
> velocity-1016/
>
> A vote regarding the quality of this test build will be initiated within
> the next couple of days.
>
> Release Candidates changelog:
>   RC1: initial candidate
>   RC2: bugfixes
>   RC3: review SLF4J Logger names (instead of a single logger named
> "Velocity", have a hierarchy of loggers with a base of
> 'org.apache.velocity')
>   RC4: minor fixes
>   RC5:
>    * the default encoding is now UTF-8 (and not the platform default)
>    * commons-collections is not any more a compilation dependency
>    * commons-lang3 dependency is not any more shaded
>    * the configuration API doesn't reference ExtProperties
>    * the events API has been optimized and reviewed: all events do receive
> the current Context
>    * there has been a few optimizations in ASTStringLiteral rendering
> RC6: mostly code cleaning and build process optimization ; assembly module
> has been dropped
>
>
> Regards,
>
>   Claude
>
>
>
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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Velocity Engine 2.0 RC6 test build available

Claude Brisson-2
Hi Greg.

Just include the commons-io library [1], then do:

     import org.apache.commons.io.FileUtils;
     ....
     String content = FiileUtils.readFileToString(new File(filename),
Charset.UTF_8);

The charset parameter is optional but recommended. Adapt it to your
needs, of course.

[1] https://mvnrepository.com/artifact/commons-io/commons-io/2.5


   Claude

On 26/01/2017 14:52, Greg Huber wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I use the taxen task, and now have a local copy as its no longer supported.
>
> What would be an equivalent to .fileContentsToString(..) as its now missing?
>
> org.apache.velocity.util.StringUtils
>
> value = StringUtils.fileContentsToString(
>                                          getProject().resolveFile(value)
>                                                  .getCanonicalPath());
>
> Cheers Greg
>
>
>
> On 26 January 2017 at 03:39, Claude Brisson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> A new test build of Velocity Engine 2.0 is available (RC6).
>>
>> No determination as to the quality ('alpha,' 'beta,' or 'GA') of Velocity
>> Engine 2.0 has been made, and at this time it is simply a "test build". We
>> welcome any comments you may have, and will take all feedback into account
>> if a quality vote is called for this build.
>>
>> Release notes:
>>
>> * https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/velocity/velocity-eng
>> ine/2.0/release-notes.html
>>
>> Distribution:
>>
>>   * https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/velocity/velocity-engine/2.0/
>>
>> Maven 2 staging repository:
>>
>>   * https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapache
>> velocity-1016/
>>
>> A vote regarding the quality of this test build will be initiated within
>> the next couple of days.
>>
>> Release Candidates changelog:
>>    RC1: initial candidate
>>    RC2: bugfixes
>>    RC3: review SLF4J Logger names (instead of a single logger named
>> "Velocity", have a hierarchy of loggers with a base of
>> 'org.apache.velocity')
>>    RC4: minor fixes
>>    RC5:
>>     * the default encoding is now UTF-8 (and not the platform default)
>>     * commons-collections is not any more a compilation dependency
>>     * commons-lang3 dependency is not any more shaded
>>     * the configuration API doesn't reference ExtProperties
>>     * the events API has been optimized and reviewed: all events do receive
>> the current Context
>>     * there has been a few optimizations in ASTStringLiteral rendering
>> RC6: mostly code cleaning and build process optimization ; assembly module
>> has been dropped
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>    Claude
>>
>>
>>


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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Velocity Engine 2.0 RC6 test build available

Claude Brisson-2
Oh, and Michael Osipov suggested a much easier way:

     import java.nio.Files;
     import java.nio.charset.StandardCharsets;
     ....
     String contents = new String(Files.readAllBytes(path),
StandardCharsets.UTF_8);


   Claude

On 26/01/2017 15:42, Claude Brisson wrote:

> Hi Greg.
>
> Just include the commons-io library [1], then do:
>
>     import org.apache.commons.io.FileUtils;
>     ....
>     String content = FiileUtils.readFileToString(new File(filename),
> Charset.UTF_8);
>
> The charset parameter is optional but recommended. Adapt it to your
> needs, of course.
>
> [1] https://mvnrepository.com/artifact/commons-io/commons-io/2.5
>
>
>   Claude
>
> On 26/01/2017 14:52, Greg Huber wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I use the taxen task, and now have a local copy as its no longer
>> supported.
>>
>> What would be an equivalent to .fileContentsToString(..) as its now
>> missing?
>>
>> org.apache.velocity.util.StringUtils
>>
>> value = StringUtils.fileContentsToString(
>> getProject().resolveFile(value)
>> .getCanonicalPath());
>>
>> Cheers Greg
>>
>>
>>
>> On 26 January 2017 at 03:39, Claude Brisson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> A new test build of Velocity Engine 2.0 is available (RC6).
>>>
>>> No determination as to the quality ('alpha,' 'beta,' or 'GA') of
>>> Velocity
>>> Engine 2.0 has been made, and at this time it is simply a "test
>>> build". We
>>> welcome any comments you may have, and will take all feedback into
>>> account
>>> if a quality vote is called for this build.
>>>
>>> Release notes:
>>>
>>> * https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/velocity/velocity-eng
>>> ine/2.0/release-notes.html
>>>
>>> Distribution:
>>>
>>>   *
>>> https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/velocity/velocity-engine/2.0/
>>>
>>> Maven 2 staging repository:
>>>
>>>   * https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapache
>>> velocity-1016/
>>>
>>> A vote regarding the quality of this test build will be initiated
>>> within
>>> the next couple of days.
>>>
>>> Release Candidates changelog:
>>>    RC1: initial candidate
>>>    RC2: bugfixes
>>>    RC3: review SLF4J Logger names (instead of a single logger named
>>> "Velocity", have a hierarchy of loggers with a base of
>>> 'org.apache.velocity')
>>>    RC4: minor fixes
>>>    RC5:
>>>     * the default encoding is now UTF-8 (and not the platform default)
>>>     * commons-collections is not any more a compilation dependency
>>>     * commons-lang3 dependency is not any more shaded
>>>     * the configuration API doesn't reference ExtProperties
>>>     * the events API has been optimized and reviewed: all events do
>>> receive
>>> the current Context
>>>     * there has been a few optimizations in ASTStringLiteral rendering
>>> RC6: mostly code cleaning and build process optimization ; assembly
>>> module
>>> has been dropped
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>    Claude
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>


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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Velocity Engine 2.0 RC6 test build available

Greg Huber
Ahh java, now seems so many different ways of doing the same thing....
Just importing a file, I also have standard utils.

The path is the tricky one now, without testing it.

value = FileUtils.readFileToString(new File(
                                        getProject().resolveFile(value)
                                                .getCanonicalPath()),
UTF_8);

Path thePath = FileSystems.getDefault().getPath(
                                        getProject().resolveFile(value)
                                        .getCanonicalPath());

value = new String(Files.readAllBytes(thePath),
                                        StandardCharsets.UTF_8);



On 26 January 2017 at 15:48, Claude Brisson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Oh, and Michael Osipov suggested a much easier way:
>
>     import java.nio.Files;
>     import java.nio.charset.StandardCharsets;
>     ....
>     String contents = new String(Files.readAllBytes(path),
> StandardCharsets.UTF_8);
>
>
>   Claude
>
> On 26/01/2017 15:42, Claude Brisson wrote:
>
>> Hi Greg.
>>
>> Just include the commons-io library [1], then do:
>>
>>     import org.apache.commons.io.FileUtils;
>>     ....
>>     String content = FiileUtils.readFileToString(new File(filename),
>> Charset.UTF_8);
>>
>> The charset parameter is optional but recommended. Adapt it to your
>> needs, of course.
>>
>> [1] https://mvnrepository.com/artifact/commons-io/commons-io/2.5
>>
>>
>>   Claude
>>
>> On 26/01/2017 14:52, Greg Huber wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I use the taxen task, and now have a local copy as its no longer
>>> supported.
>>>
>>> What would be an equivalent to .fileContentsToString(..) as its now
>>> missing?
>>>
>>> org.apache.velocity.util.StringUtils
>>>
>>> value = StringUtils.fileContentsToString(
>>> getProject().resolveFile(value)
>>> .getCanonicalPath());
>>>
>>> Cheers Greg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 26 January 2017 at 03:39, Claude Brisson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> A new test build of Velocity Engine 2.0 is available (RC6).
>>>>
>>>> No determination as to the quality ('alpha,' 'beta,' or 'GA') of
>>>> Velocity
>>>> Engine 2.0 has been made, and at this time it is simply a "test build".
>>>> We
>>>> welcome any comments you may have, and will take all feedback into
>>>> account
>>>> if a quality vote is called for this build.
>>>>
>>>> Release notes:
>>>>
>>>> * https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/velocity/velocity-eng
>>>> ine/2.0/release-notes.html
>>>>
>>>> Distribution:
>>>>
>>>>   * https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/velocity/velocity-eng
>>>> ine/2.0/
>>>>
>>>> Maven 2 staging repository:
>>>>
>>>>   * https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapache
>>>> velocity-1016/
>>>>
>>>> A vote regarding the quality of this test build will be initiated within
>>>> the next couple of days.
>>>>
>>>> Release Candidates changelog:
>>>>    RC1: initial candidate
>>>>    RC2: bugfixes
>>>>    RC3: review SLF4J Logger names (instead of a single logger named
>>>> "Velocity", have a hierarchy of loggers with a base of
>>>> 'org.apache.velocity')
>>>>    RC4: minor fixes
>>>>    RC5:
>>>>     * the default encoding is now UTF-8 (and not the platform default)
>>>>     * commons-collections is not any more a compilation dependency
>>>>     * commons-lang3 dependency is not any more shaded
>>>>     * the configuration API doesn't reference ExtProperties
>>>>     * the events API has been optimized and reviewed: all events do
>>>> receive
>>>> the current Context
>>>>     * there has been a few optimizations in ASTStringLiteral rendering
>>>> RC6: mostly code cleaning and build process optimization ; assembly
>>>> module
>>>> has been dropped
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>>    Claude
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Velocity Engine 2.0 RC6 test build available

Claude Brisson-2
In reply to this post by Michael Osipov
On 26/01/2017 14:11, Michael Osipov wrote:
[...]
> * StringUtils#normalizePath() can likely be replaced with Common IO's
> FilenameUtils#normalize()
If we take this route, then we'll shade the commons-io class.
>
> * StringUtils#nullTrim() can be replaced with Commons Lang's
> StringUtils#trim()
> * StringUtils#trimStrings() can be disposed altogether because it
> iterates the list and it is iterated right after the call again. Use
> StringUtils#trim() during the real iteration directly

Right.

[...]

> * OSGi metadata are gone from Core, no Bundle-SymbolicName, no
> Exports, everything is gone from MANIFEST.MF

This I don't understand at all. You said "gone", so you implied that
those meta informations *were* to be found somewhere before this RC? I
think we never made the effort to properly populate those informations.

> * There are several spots where collections are iterated with a for
> loop with a counter and #get(i) or a literal (legacy code). This
> should generally be avoided. One example has been commented on GitHub.

I agree. Hopefully, this reenginering has already been done in sensitive
code sections, and remaining ones should be harmless.

> * Terrific improvement on the JavaCC code generation!
> * JavaCC tells me:
>> Note: UNICODE_INPUT option is specified. Please make sure you create
>> the parser/lexer using a Reader with the correct character encoding.
>> Warning: Choice conflict in [...] construct at line 1325, column 21.
>>          Expansion nested within construct and expansion following
>> construct
>>          have common prefixes, one of which is: <TEXT>
>>          Consider using a lookahead of 2 or more for nested expansion.
>> Warning: Choice conflict in (...)* construct at line 2157, column 5.
>>          Expansion nested within construct and expansion following
>> construct
>>          have common prefixes, one of which is: <WHITESPACE>
>>          Consider using a lookahead of 2 or more for nested expansion.
>
> Is this something one needs to take care of?
>
Not at all. Those two grammar constructs partially rely on the *order of
declaration* (and the '?' cardinality suffix inside a repetition
operator is enough to trigger the warning). javacc is just anxious about
that, and suggests adding lookahead instead.

Thanks for all this remarks, Michael. They all are very constructive.

Now my question is: do you or someone else think that the OSGi missing
meta-informations are a show stopper for the 2.0? Otherwise, my plan is
to open JIRA issues for all those remarks, try to release the RC6, and
handle the issues in 2.0.1 or 2.1. The OSGi thing is the only one I'm
not really sure about, since I'm not using any tool relying on OSGi
myself (or maybe I'm the Monsieur Jourdain of the OSGi).


    Claude



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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Velocity Engine 2.0 RC6 test build available

Claude Brisson-2

>
> Now my question is: do you or someone else think that the OSGi missing
> meta-informations are a show stopper for the 2.0? Otherwise, my plan
> is to open JIRA issues for all those remarks, try to release the RC6,
> and handle the issues in 2.0.1 or 2.1. The OSGi thing is the only one
> I'm not really sure about, since I'm not using any tool relying on
> OSGi myself (or maybe I'm the Monsieur Jourdain of the OSGi).
>
>

Of course, if we find any other serious bug, the question is not anymore
pertinent. And I think I found a problem that sits here since some time...

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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Velocity Engine 2.0 RC6 test build available

Michael Osipov
Am 2017-01-26 um 18:37 schrieb Claude Brisson:
>
>>
>> Now my question is: do you or someone else think that the OSGi missing
>> meta-informations are a show stopper for the 2.0? Otherwise, my plan
>> is to open JIRA issues for all those remarks, try to release the RC6,
>> and handle the issues in 2.0.1 or 2.1. The OSGi thing is the only one
>> I'm not really sure about, since I'm not using any tool relying on
>> OSGi myself (or maybe I'm the Monsieur Jourdain of the OSGi).

Velocity 2.0 took so much time, one month more or less doesn't really
make a difference now.

>
> Of course, if we find any other serious bug, the question is not anymore
> pertinent. And I think I found a problem that sits here since some time...

What is the problem?


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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Velocity Engine 2.0 RC6 test build available

Michael Osipov
In reply to this post by Claude Brisson-2
Am 2017-01-26 um 17:54 schrieb Claude Brisson:
> On 26/01/2017 14:11, Michael Osipov wrote:
> [...]
>> * StringUtils#normalizePath() can likely be replaced with Common IO's
>> FilenameUtils#normalize()
> If we take this route, then we'll shade the commons-io class.

Absolutely, they might be other spots where this class can be used.
Moreover, either using IOUtils#closeQuietly() or try-with-resources will
clean up a lot of boilerplace code.

>> * OSGi metadata are gone from Core, no Bundle-SymbolicName, no
>> Exports, everything is gone from MANIFEST.MF
>
> This I don't understand at all. You said "gone", so you implied that
> those meta informations *were* to be found somewhere before this RC? I
> think we never made the effort to properly populate those informations.

JIRA release notes say:
[VELOCITY-694] Make Velocity OSGi-ready

I do not see any of the OSGi required metadata.

>> * There are several spots where collections are iterated with a for
>> loop with a counter and #get(i) or a literal (legacy code). This
>> should generally be avoided. One example has been commented on GitHub.
>
> I agree. Hopefully, this reenginering has already been done in sensitive
> code sections, and remaining ones should be harmless.

Are you sure? I found a few #get(i) in a few loaders, RuntimeMacro and
Template. In a high-concurrency webapp where templates and macros are
loaded very often, this can be an issue, but of course, I do not have
hard numbers for this.

>> * Terrific improvement on the JavaCC code generation!
>> * JavaCC tells me:
>>> Note: UNICODE_INPUT option is specified. Please make sure you create
>>> the parser/lexer using a Reader with the correct character encoding.
>>> Warning: Choice conflict in [...] construct at line 1325, column 21.
>>>          Expansion nested within construct and expansion following
>>> construct
>>>          have common prefixes, one of which is: <TEXT>
>>>          Consider using a lookahead of 2 or more for nested expansion.
>>> Warning: Choice conflict in (...)* construct at line 2157, column 5.
>>>          Expansion nested within construct and expansion following
>>> construct
>>>          have common prefixes, one of which is: <WHITESPACE>
>>>          Consider using a lookahead of 2 or more for nested expansion.
>>
>> Is this something one needs to take care of?
>>
> Not at all. Those two grammar constructs partially rely on the *order of
> declaration* (and the '?' cardinality suffix inside a repetition
> operator is enough to trigger the warning). javacc is just anxious about
> that, and suggests adding lookahead instead.

OK, great. What about UNICODE_INPUT? Docs say we should set this if we
have Unicode files. We have set UTF-8. Can we ignore this message too#?

> Thanks for all this remarks, Michael. They all are very constructive.

Very much welcome.

> Now my question is: do you or someone else think that the OSGi missing
> meta-informations are a show stopper for the 2.0? Otherwise, my plan is
> to open JIRA issues for all those remarks, try to release the RC6, and
> handle the issues in 2.0.1 or 2.1. The OSGi thing is the only one I'm
> not really sure about, since I'm not using any tool relying on OSGi
> myself (or maybe I'm the Monsieur Jourdain of the OSGi).

I do not use OSGi myself, but this says pretty much everything:
https://mvnrepository.com/artifact/org.apache.servicemix.bundles/org.apache.servicemix.bundles.velocity.
I consider proper OSGi metadata as vital for Velocity. Unfortunately, I
do not know what to set with the Bundle Maven Plugin to have proper data
generated.

Michael

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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Velocity Engine 2.0 RC6 test build available

Claude Brisson-2
In reply to this post by Michael Osipov


On 26/01/2017 19:45, Michael Osipov wrote:

> Am 2017-01-26 um 18:37 schrieb Claude Brisson:
>>
>>>
>>> Now my question is: do you or someone else think that the OSGi missing
>>> meta-informations are a show stopper for the 2.0? Otherwise, my plan
>>> is to open JIRA issues for all those remarks, try to release the RC6,
>>> and handle the issues in 2.0.1 or 2.1. The OSGi thing is the only one
>>> I'm not really sure about, since I'm not using any tool relying on
>>> OSGi myself (or maybe I'm the Monsieur Jourdain of the OSGi).
>
> Velocity 2.0 took so much time, one month more or less doesn't really
> make a difference now.
>
It does. It's becoming harder and harder for me to find time working on
it. Your and others help as a reviewer is very helpful, but it does
still take several hours each time, and there will *always* be an extra
space to fix somewhere. I am not against seeking a certain form of
perfection in the code, but the process doesn't have to be coerced in a
single release.

And once the engine is released, I still have to take care of the Tools.
And then of several other tools and filters for the next release of the
Tools.

That's why I would like to see some rhythm. And releasing can attract
more people. And who said "release often release early"? Or, in the same
vein, "when the product is almost ready, kill the engineer"? Well, I'm
an engineer, but I do understand the motivation.

But there will at least be an RC7. So, I'll try to do something about
this OSGi missing informations.

>>
>> Of course, if we find any other serious bug, the question is not anymore
>> pertinent. And I think I found a problem that sits here since some
>> time...
>
> What is the problem?
>
Velocity "truthiness": https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/VELOCITY-692

It should definitely be part of 2.0. I missed it because the issue was
closed, we should have opened a 2.0 one to remember it.


   Claude

>
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Re: [ANNOUNCE] Velocity Engine 2.0 RC6 test build available

Michael Osipov
Am 2017-01-27 um 00:27 schrieb Claude Brisson:

>
>
> On 26/01/2017 19:45, Michael Osipov wrote:
>> Am 2017-01-26 um 18:37 schrieb Claude Brisson:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Now my question is: do you or someone else think that the OSGi missing
>>>> meta-informations are a show stopper for the 2.0? Otherwise, my plan
>>>> is to open JIRA issues for all those remarks, try to release the RC6,
>>>> and handle the issues in 2.0.1 or 2.1. The OSGi thing is the only one
>>>> I'm not really sure about, since I'm not using any tool relying on
>>>> OSGi myself (or maybe I'm the Monsieur Jourdain of the OSGi).
>>
>> Velocity 2.0 took so much time, one month more or less doesn't really
>> make a difference now.
>>
> It does. It's becoming harder and harder for me to find time working on
> it. Your and others help as a reviewer is very helpful, but it does
> still take several hours each time, and there will *always* be an extra
> space to fix somewhere. I am not against seeking a certain form of
> perfection in the code, but the process doesn't have to be coerced in a
> single release.

I know it consumes a lot of time. So does my work for Maven. I wouldn't
mind to commit myself and we'd do CTR (commit then review) to relieve
you from the massive work.

> And once the engine is released, I still have to take care of the Tools.
> And then of several other tools and filters for the next release of the
> Tools.

I do not mind to review here too.

> That's why I would like to see some rhythm. And releasing can attract
> more people. And who said "release often release early"? Or, in the same
> vein, "when the product is almost ready, kill the engineer"? Well, I'm
> an engineer, but I do understand the motivation.
>
> But there will at least be an RC7. So, I'll try to do something about
> this OSGi missing informations.
>
>>>
>>> Of course, if we find any other serious bug, the question is not anymore
>>> pertinent. And I think I found a problem that sits here since some
>>> time...
>>
>> What is the problem?
>>
> Velocity "truthiness": https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/VELOCITY-692
>
> It should definitely be part of 2.0. I missed it because the issue was
> closed, we should have opened a 2.0 one to remember it.

Thats's the problem if a closed/resolved issue does not have an
assignee. You never know who handled it without reading the entire
thread. A ticket should always have an assignee if code has been changed.

Michael


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Velocity truth (was: Re: [ANNOUNCE] Velocity Engine 2.0 RC6 test build available)

Claude Brisson-2

>>>
>>> What is the problem?
>>>
>> Velocity "truthiness":
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/VELOCITY-692
>>
>> It should definitely be part of 2.0. I missed it because the issue was
>> closed, we should have opened a 2.0 one to remember it.
>
> Thats's the problem if a closed/resolved issue does not have an
> assignee. You never know who handled it without reading the entire
> thread. A ticket should always have an assignee if code has been changed.
>

Here's what had been specified by Nathan at the time (order is
meaningful, and falseness seems easier to specify than truth):

$obj is null
$obj is boolean false
$obj returns false from getAsBoolean() (provided there is such a method)
$obj is empty string (CharSequence w/length 0)
$obj returns true from isEmpty() (provided there is such a method)
$obj is array of length 0
$obj returns null from getAsString() (provided there is such a method)
$obj returns empty string from getAsString() (provided there is such a
method)
$obj returns null from getAsNumber() (provided there is such a method)
$obj returns 0 from length() or size() (provided there is such a method)
$obj returns empty string from toString() (provided there is such a method)

Regarding this spec:
  - I'm not sure about getAsString() ; toString() is usually the
standard way of getting the String representation and should be enough.
  - I'm not convinced by the fact that zero should be true. I hear
Nathan's point that for a display language, zero is as legitimate as any
other number to be displayed. But it breaks the principle of least
surprise, since each and every other language around, when not
forbidding number towards boolean implicit conversion, consider zero as
false.

So I'd rather go with:

$obj is null
$obj is Boolean false
$obj is Number zero (whatever Number variant)
$obj returns false from getAsBoolean() (provided there is such a method)
$obj is empty string (CharSequence w/length 0)
$obj returns true from isEmpty() (provided there is such a method)
$obj is array of length 0
$obj returns null from getAsNumber() (provided there is such a method)
$obj returns 0 from length() or size() (provided there is such a method)
$obj returns empty string from toString() (provided there is such a method)

Also, I noticed that Velocity weren't very consistent with literals. The
only literal returning true is the 'true' literal. "foo" is false,
whereas it should be consistent with $foo containing "foo".

   Claude


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Re: Velocity truth (was: Re: [ANNOUNCE] Velocity Engine 2.0 RC6 test build available)

Nathan Bubna
Shame that i can't remember anymore all my reasons for wanting those
"getAs<Type>" lookups. Wondering why getAsNumber and getAsBoolean are here
too. Anyone else recall the use case? And assuming that i had good reason
(that did happen sometimes <grin>), i wonder why i pushed for bucking the
"to<Type>()" convention.

As for the literals, the thought of them being used in #if statements in a
template language is cringe-inducing. What's the use-case? Temporary
debugging hacks? If so, part of me thinks maybe only 'true' should even be
allowed.

On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 7:15 AM, Claude Brisson <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
>>>> What is the problem?
>>>>
>>>> Velocity "truthiness":
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/VELOCITY-692
>>>
>>> It should definitely be part of 2.0. I missed it because the issue was
>>> closed, we should have opened a 2.0 one to remember it.
>>>
>>
>> Thats's the problem if a closed/resolved issue does not have an
>> assignee. You never know who handled it without reading the entire
>> thread. A ticket should always have an assignee if code has been changed.
>>
>>
> Here's what had been specified by Nathan at the time (order is meaningful,
> and falseness seems easier to specify than truth):
>
> $obj is null
> $obj is boolean false
> $obj returns false from getAsBoolean() (provided there is such a method)
> $obj is empty string (CharSequence w/length 0)
> $obj returns true from isEmpty() (provided there is such a method)
> $obj is array of length 0
> $obj returns null from getAsString() (provided there is such a method)
> $obj returns empty string from getAsString() (provided there is such a
> method)
> $obj returns null from getAsNumber() (provided there is such a method)
> $obj returns 0 from length() or size() (provided there is such a method)
> $obj returns empty string from toString() (provided there is such a method)
>
> Regarding this spec:
>  - I'm not sure about getAsString() ; toString() is usually the standard
> way of getting the String representation and should be enough.
>  - I'm not convinced by the fact that zero should be true. I hear Nathan's
> point that for a display language, zero is as legitimate as any other
> number to be displayed. But it breaks the principle of least surprise,
> since each and every other language around, when not forbidding number
> towards boolean implicit conversion, consider zero as false.
>
> So I'd rather go with:
>
> $obj is null
> $obj is Boolean false
> $obj is Number zero (whatever Number variant)
> $obj returns false from getAsBoolean() (provided there is such a method)
> $obj is empty string (CharSequence w/length 0)
> $obj returns true from isEmpty() (provided there is such a method)
> $obj is array of length 0
> $obj returns null from getAsNumber() (provided there is such a method)
> $obj returns 0 from length() or size() (provided there is such a method)
> $obj returns empty string from toString() (provided there is such a method)
>
> Also, I noticed that Velocity weren't very consistent with literals. The
> only literal returning true is the 'true' literal. "foo" is false, whereas
> it should be consistent with $foo containing "foo".
>
>   Claude
>
>
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Re: Velocity truth (was: Re: [ANNOUNCE] Velocity Engine 2.0 RC6 test build available)

Alex Fedotov
You guys should definitely leave a way of disabling the toString()
conversion in boolean expressions.

There are many places where people do null checks if #if($obj)...#end.

Classes almost never return an empty string or null string from the
toString  call. Even worse some classes may use toString for debugging
purposes and produce very long  strings (including nested objects, etc.).
In the code above that would be a huge inefficiency.

Alex

On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 2:06 PM, Nathan Bubna <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Shame that i can't remember anymore all my reasons for wanting those
> "getAs<Type>" lookups. Wondering why getAsNumber and getAsBoolean are here
> too. Anyone else recall the use case? And assuming that i had good reason
> (that did happen sometimes <grin>), i wonder why i pushed for bucking the
> "to<Type>()" convention.
>
> As for the literals, the thought of them being used in #if statements in a
> template language is cringe-inducing. What's the use-case? Temporary
> debugging hacks? If so, part of me thinks maybe only 'true' should even be
> allowed.
>
> On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 7:15 AM, Claude Brisson <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >>>> What is the problem?
> >>>>
> >>>> Velocity "truthiness":
> >>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/VELOCITY-692
> >>>
> >>> It should definitely be part of 2.0. I missed it because the issue was
> >>> closed, we should have opened a 2.0 one to remember it.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Thats's the problem if a closed/resolved issue does not have an
> >> assignee. You never know who handled it without reading the entire
> >> thread. A ticket should always have an assignee if code has been
> changed.
> >>
> >>
> > Here's what had been specified by Nathan at the time (order is
> meaningful,
> > and falseness seems easier to specify than truth):
> >
> > $obj is null
> > $obj is boolean false
> > $obj returns false from getAsBoolean() (provided there is such a method)
> > $obj is empty string (CharSequence w/length 0)
> > $obj returns true from isEmpty() (provided there is such a method)
> > $obj is array of length 0
> > $obj returns null from getAsString() (provided there is such a method)
> > $obj returns empty string from getAsString() (provided there is such a
> > method)
> > $obj returns null from getAsNumber() (provided there is such a method)
> > $obj returns 0 from length() or size() (provided there is such a method)
> > $obj returns empty string from toString() (provided there is such a
> method)
> >
> > Regarding this spec:
> >  - I'm not sure about getAsString() ; toString() is usually the standard
> > way of getting the String representation and should be enough.
> >  - I'm not convinced by the fact that zero should be true. I hear
> Nathan's
> > point that for a display language, zero is as legitimate as any other
> > number to be displayed. But it breaks the principle of least surprise,
> > since each and every other language around, when not forbidding number
> > towards boolean implicit conversion, consider zero as false.
> >
> > So I'd rather go with:
> >
> > $obj is null
> > $obj is Boolean false
> > $obj is Number zero (whatever Number variant)
> > $obj returns false from getAsBoolean() (provided there is such a method)
> > $obj is empty string (CharSequence w/length 0)
> > $obj returns true from isEmpty() (provided there is such a method)
> > $obj is array of length 0
> > $obj returns null from getAsNumber() (provided there is such a method)
> > $obj returns 0 from length() or size() (provided there is such a method)
> > $obj returns empty string from toString() (provided there is such a
> method)
> >
> > Also, I noticed that Velocity weren't very consistent with literals. The
> > only literal returning true is the 'true' literal. "foo" is false,
> whereas
> > it should be consistent with $foo containing "foo".
> >
> >   Claude
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >
> >
>
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Re: Velocity truth

Claude Brisson-2
In reply to this post by Nathan Bubna
On 28/01/2017 20:06, Nathan Bubna wrote:

> Shame that i can't remember anymore all my reasons for wanting those
> "getAs<Type>" lookups. Wondering why getAsNumber and getAsBoolean are here
> too. Anyone else recall the use case? And assuming that i had good reason
> (that did happen sometimes <grin>), i wonder why i pushed for bucking the
> "to<Type>()" convention.

It seems like Java8 went your way:
https://docs.oracle.com/javase/8/docs/api/java/util/function/BooleanSupplier.html

Anyway, we can check both getAsBoolean and toBoolean, as with
getAsNumber and toNumber, etc... but maybe we should stick to
to<Something> methods.
>
> As for the literals, the thought of them being used in #if statements in a
> template language is cringe-inducing. What's the use-case? Temporary
> debugging hacks? If so, part of me thinks maybe only 'true' should even be
> allowed.

Well, imagine a newcomer to Velocity trying to understand its behavior.
He will typically write #if("") or #if(0) to check what happens for an
empty string or for zero. Not having a consistent behavior may make him
build wrong assumptions.

Or a developer writing #if(0) instead of #if(false) to temporarily
inhibit a portion of code.

Or think educational use...


   Claude

> On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 7:15 AM, Claude Brisson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>>>>> What is the problem?
>>>>>
>>>>> Velocity "truthiness":
>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/VELOCITY-692
>>>>
>>>> It should definitely be part of 2.0. I missed it because the issue was
>>>> closed, we should have opened a 2.0 one to remember it.
>>>>
>>> Thats's the problem if a closed/resolved issue does not have an
>>> assignee. You never know who handled it without reading the entire
>>> thread. A ticket should always have an assignee if code has been changed.
>>>
>>>
>> Here's what had been specified by Nathan at the time (order is meaningful,
>> and falseness seems easier to specify than truth):
>>
>> $obj is null
>> $obj is boolean false
>> $obj returns false from getAsBoolean() (provided there is such a method)
>> $obj is empty string (CharSequence w/length 0)
>> $obj returns true from isEmpty() (provided there is such a method)
>> $obj is array of length 0
>> $obj returns null from getAsString() (provided there is such a method)
>> $obj returns empty string from getAsString() (provided there is such a
>> method)
>> $obj returns null from getAsNumber() (provided there is such a method)
>> $obj returns 0 from length() or size() (provided there is such a method)
>> $obj returns empty string from toString() (provided there is such a method)
>>
>> Regarding this spec:
>>   - I'm not sure about getAsString() ; toString() is usually the standard
>> way of getting the String representation and should be enough.
>>   - I'm not convinced by the fact that zero should be true. I hear Nathan's
>> point that for a display language, zero is as legitimate as any other
>> number to be displayed. But it breaks the principle of least surprise,
>> since each and every other language around, when not forbidding number
>> towards boolean implicit conversion, consider zero as false.
>>
>> So I'd rather go with:
>>
>> $obj is null
>> $obj is Boolean false
>> $obj is Number zero (whatever Number variant)
>> $obj returns false from getAsBoolean() (provided there is such a method)
>> $obj is empty string (CharSequence w/length 0)
>> $obj returns true from isEmpty() (provided there is such a method)
>> $obj is array of length 0
>> $obj returns null from getAsNumber() (provided there is such a method)
>> $obj returns 0 from length() or size() (provided there is such a method)
>> $obj returns empty string from toString() (provided there is such a method)
>>
>> Also, I noticed that Velocity weren't very consistent with literals. The
>> only literal returning true is the 'true' literal. "foo" is false, whereas
>> it should be consistent with $foo containing "foo".
>>
>>    Claude
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>
>>


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Re: Velocity truth

Claude Brisson-2
In reply to this post by Alex Fedotov
On 28/01/2017 20:23, Alex Fedotov wrote:

> You guys should definitely leave a way of disabling the toString()
> conversion in boolean expressions.
>
> There are many places where people do null checks if #if($obj)...#end.
>
> Classes almost never return an empty string or null string from the
> toString  call. Even worse some classes may use toString for debugging
> purposes and produce very long  strings (including nested objects, etc.).
> In the code above that would be a huge inefficiency.

I totally agree that a great percentage of #if($foo) statements are just
here to check for nulls. And the current behavior of returning false for
empty strings, empty arrays and empty maps could already be problematic
in this regard

And I think I have a good proposal about that.

Since

$foo differenciate null and "" (by displaying the first and not the second)
$!foo assimilates null and "" (by hiding both)

why not consider that:

#if($foo) returns false for null and true for everything else, and
#if($!foo) returns false for null, "", zero, empty arrays, etc...


   Claude

>
> Alex
>
> On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 2:06 PM, Nathan Bubna <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Shame that i can't remember anymore all my reasons for wanting those
>> "getAs<Type>" lookups. Wondering why getAsNumber and getAsBoolean are here
>> too. Anyone else recall the use case? And assuming that i had good reason
>> (that did happen sometimes <grin>), i wonder why i pushed for bucking the
>> "to<Type>()" convention.
>>
>> As for the literals, the thought of them being used in #if statements in a
>> template language is cringe-inducing. What's the use-case? Temporary
>> debugging hacks? If so, part of me thinks maybe only 'true' should even be
>> allowed.
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 7:15 AM, Claude Brisson <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>>>> What is the problem?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Velocity "truthiness":
>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/VELOCITY-692
>>>>>
>>>>> It should definitely be part of 2.0. I missed it because the issue was
>>>>> closed, we should have opened a 2.0 one to remember it.
>>>>>
>>>> Thats's the problem if a closed/resolved issue does not have an
>>>> assignee. You never know who handled it without reading the entire
>>>> thread. A ticket should always have an assignee if code has been
>> changed.
>>>>
>>> Here's what had been specified by Nathan at the time (order is
>> meaningful,
>>> and falseness seems easier to specify than truth):
>>>
>>> $obj is null
>>> $obj is boolean false
>>> $obj returns false from getAsBoolean() (provided there is such a method)
>>> $obj is empty string (CharSequence w/length 0)
>>> $obj returns true from isEmpty() (provided there is such a method)
>>> $obj is array of length 0
>>> $obj returns null from getAsString() (provided there is such a method)
>>> $obj returns empty string from getAsString() (provided there is such a
>>> method)
>>> $obj returns null from getAsNumber() (provided there is such a method)
>>> $obj returns 0 from length() or size() (provided there is such a method)
>>> $obj returns empty string from toString() (provided there is such a
>> method)
>>> Regarding this spec:
>>>   - I'm not sure about getAsString() ; toString() is usually the standard
>>> way of getting the String representation and should be enough.
>>>   - I'm not convinced by the fact that zero should be true. I hear
>> Nathan's
>>> point that for a display language, zero is as legitimate as any other
>>> number to be displayed. But it breaks the principle of least surprise,
>>> since each and every other language around, when not forbidding number
>>> towards boolean implicit conversion, consider zero as false.
>>>
>>> So I'd rather go with:
>>>
>>> $obj is null
>>> $obj is Boolean false
>>> $obj is Number zero (whatever Number variant)
>>> $obj returns false from getAsBoolean() (provided there is such a method)
>>> $obj is empty string (CharSequence w/length 0)
>>> $obj returns true from isEmpty() (provided there is such a method)
>>> $obj is array of length 0
>>> $obj returns null from getAsNumber() (provided there is such a method)
>>> $obj returns 0 from length() or size() (provided there is such a method)
>>> $obj returns empty string from toString() (provided there is such a
>> method)
>>> Also, I noticed that Velocity weren't very consistent with literals. The
>>> only literal returning true is the 'true' literal. "foo" is false,
>> whereas
>>> it should be consistent with $foo containing "foo".
>>>
>>>    Claude
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>
>>>


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Re: Velocity truth

Claude Brisson-2
Oh, and there is one exception: both of them should of course also be
false for the false boolean value. People willing to differentiate null
and false do have methods to do so.

   Claude


On 29/01/2017 01:38, Claude Brisson wrote:

> On 28/01/2017 20:23, Alex Fedotov wrote:
>
>> You guys should definitely leave a way of disabling the toString()
>> conversion in boolean expressions.
>>
>> There are many places where people do null checks if #if($obj)...#end.
>>
>> Classes almost never return an empty string or null string from the
>> toString  call. Even worse some classes may use toString for debugging
>> purposes and produce very long  strings (including nested objects,
>> etc.).
>> In the code above that would be a huge inefficiency.
>
> I totally agree that a great percentage of #if($foo) statements are
> just here to check for nulls. And the current behavior of returning
> false for empty strings, empty arrays and empty maps could already be
> problematic in this regard
>
> And I think I have a good proposal about that.
>
> Since
>
> $foo differenciate null and "" (by displaying the first and not the
> second)
> $!foo assimilates null and "" (by hiding both)
>
> why not consider that:
>
> #if($foo) returns false for null and true for everything else, and
> #if($!foo) returns false for null, "", zero, empty arrays, etc...
>
>
>   Claude
>
>>
>> Alex
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 2:06 PM, Nathan Bubna <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Shame that i can't remember anymore all my reasons for wanting those
>>> "getAs<Type>" lookups. Wondering why getAsNumber and getAsBoolean
>>> are here
>>> too. Anyone else recall the use case? And assuming that i had good
>>> reason
>>> (that did happen sometimes <grin>), i wonder why i pushed for
>>> bucking the
>>> "to<Type>()" convention.
>>>
>>> As for the literals, the thought of them being used in #if
>>> statements in a
>>> template language is cringe-inducing. What's the use-case? Temporary
>>> debugging hacks? If so, part of me thinks maybe only 'true' should
>>> even be
>>> allowed.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 7:15 AM, Claude Brisson <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> What is the problem?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Velocity "truthiness":
>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/VELOCITY-692
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It should definitely be part of 2.0. I missed it because the
>>>>>> issue was
>>>>>> closed, we should have opened a 2.0 one to remember it.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Thats's the problem if a closed/resolved issue does not have an
>>>>> assignee. You never know who handled it without reading the entire
>>>>> thread. A ticket should always have an assignee if code has been
>>> changed.
>>>>>
>>>> Here's what had been specified by Nathan at the time (order is
>>> meaningful,
>>>> and falseness seems easier to specify than truth):
>>>>
>>>> $obj is null
>>>> $obj is boolean false
>>>> $obj returns false from getAsBoolean() (provided there is such a
>>>> method)
>>>> $obj is empty string (CharSequence w/length 0)
>>>> $obj returns true from isEmpty() (provided there is such a method)
>>>> $obj is array of length 0
>>>> $obj returns null from getAsString() (provided there is such a method)
>>>> $obj returns empty string from getAsString() (provided there is such a
>>>> method)
>>>> $obj returns null from getAsNumber() (provided there is such a method)
>>>> $obj returns 0 from length() or size() (provided there is such a
>>>> method)
>>>> $obj returns empty string from toString() (provided there is such a
>>> method)
>>>> Regarding this spec:
>>>>   - I'm not sure about getAsString() ; toString() is usually the
>>>> standard
>>>> way of getting the String representation and should be enough.
>>>>   - I'm not convinced by the fact that zero should be true. I hear
>>> Nathan's
>>>> point that for a display language, zero is as legitimate as any other
>>>> number to be displayed. But it breaks the principle of least surprise,
>>>> since each and every other language around, when not forbidding number
>>>> towards boolean implicit conversion, consider zero as false.
>>>>
>>>> So I'd rather go with:
>>>>
>>>> $obj is null
>>>> $obj is Boolean false
>>>> $obj is Number zero (whatever Number variant)
>>>> $obj returns false from getAsBoolean() (provided there is such a
>>>> method)
>>>> $obj is empty string (CharSequence w/length 0)
>>>> $obj returns true from isEmpty() (provided there is such a method)
>>>> $obj is array of length 0
>>>> $obj returns null from getAsNumber() (provided there is such a method)
>>>> $obj returns 0 from length() or size() (provided there is such a
>>>> method)
>>>> $obj returns empty string from toString() (provided there is such a
>>> method)
>>>> Also, I noticed that Velocity weren't very consistent with
>>>> literals. The
>>>> only literal returning true is the 'true' literal. "foo" is false,
>>> whereas
>>>> it should be consistent with $foo containing "foo".
>>>>
>>>>    Claude
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>
>>>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>


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Re: Velocity truth (was: Re: [ANNOUNCE] Velocity Engine 2.0 RC6 test build available)

Nathan Bubna
In reply to this post by Alex Fedotov
On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Alex Fedotov <[hidden email]> wrote:

> You guys should definitely leave a way of disabling the toString()
> conversion in boolean expressions.
>

Seems reasonable, and also familiar; this may have been discussed before.


> There are many places where people do null checks if #if($obj)...#end.
>
> Classes almost never return an empty string or null string from the
> toString  call. Even worse some classes may use toString for debugging
> purposes and produce very long  strings (including nested objects, etc.).
> In the code above that would be a huge inefficiency.
>

Yes, that's part of the motive to have this lookup chain. If there's a
match higher up, toString() is avoided. Big deal for maps and arrays.


>
> Alex
>
> On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 2:06 PM, Nathan Bubna <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Shame that i can't remember anymore all my reasons for wanting those
> > "getAs<Type>" lookups. Wondering why getAsNumber and getAsBoolean are
> here
> > too. Anyone else recall the use case? And assuming that i had good reason
> > (that did happen sometimes <grin>), i wonder why i pushed for bucking the
> > "to<Type>()" convention.
> >
> > As for the literals, the thought of them being used in #if statements in
> a
> > template language is cringe-inducing. What's the use-case? Temporary
> > debugging hacks? If so, part of me thinks maybe only 'true' should even
> be
> > allowed.
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 7:15 AM, Claude Brisson <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >>>> What is the problem?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Velocity "truthiness":
> > >>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/VELOCITY-692
> > >>>
> > >>> It should definitely be part of 2.0. I missed it because the issue
> was
> > >>> closed, we should have opened a 2.0 one to remember it.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> Thats's the problem if a closed/resolved issue does not have an
> > >> assignee. You never know who handled it without reading the entire
> > >> thread. A ticket should always have an assignee if code has been
> > changed.
> > >>
> > >>
> > > Here's what had been specified by Nathan at the time (order is
> > meaningful,
> > > and falseness seems easier to specify than truth):
> > >
> > > $obj is null
> > > $obj is boolean false
> > > $obj returns false from getAsBoolean() (provided there is such a
> method)
> > > $obj is empty string (CharSequence w/length 0)
> > > $obj returns true from isEmpty() (provided there is such a method)
> > > $obj is array of length 0
> > > $obj returns null from getAsString() (provided there is such a method)
> > > $obj returns empty string from getAsString() (provided there is such a
> > > method)
> > > $obj returns null from getAsNumber() (provided there is such a method)
> > > $obj returns 0 from length() or size() (provided there is such a
> method)
> > > $obj returns empty string from toString() (provided there is such a
> > method)
> > >
> > > Regarding this spec:
> > >  - I'm not sure about getAsString() ; toString() is usually the
> standard
> > > way of getting the String representation and should be enough.
> > >  - I'm not convinced by the fact that zero should be true. I hear
> > Nathan's
> > > point that for a display language, zero is as legitimate as any other
> > > number to be displayed. But it breaks the principle of least surprise,
> > > since each and every other language around, when not forbidding number
> > > towards boolean implicit conversion, consider zero as false.
> > >
> > > So I'd rather go with:
> > >
> > > $obj is null
> > > $obj is Boolean false
> > > $obj is Number zero (whatever Number variant)
> > > $obj returns false from getAsBoolean() (provided there is such a
> method)
> > > $obj is empty string (CharSequence w/length 0)
> > > $obj returns true from isEmpty() (provided there is such a method)
> > > $obj is array of length 0
> > > $obj returns null from getAsNumber() (provided there is such a method)
> > > $obj returns 0 from length() or size() (provided there is such a
> method)
> > > $obj returns empty string from toString() (provided there is such a
> > method)
> > >
> > > Also, I noticed that Velocity weren't very consistent with literals.
> The
> > > only literal returning true is the 'true' literal. "foo" is false,
> > whereas
> > > it should be consistent with $foo containing "foo".
> > >
> > >   Claude
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > >
> > >
> >
>
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Re: Velocity truth (was: Re: [ANNOUNCE] Velocity Engine 2.0 RC6 test build available)

Nathan Bubna
On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 12:51 PM, Nathan Bubna <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Alex Fedotov <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> You guys should definitely leave a way of disabling the toString()
>> conversion in boolean expressions.
>>
>
> Seems reasonable, and also familiar; this may have been discussed before.
>

Oh, yes, and built. I knew this was familiar. :)

See http://velocity.apache.org/engine/2.0/configuration.html :

directive.if.tostring.nullcheck = true


>
>> There are many places where people do null checks if #if($obj)...#end.
>>
>> Classes almost never return an empty string or null string from the
>> toString  call. Even worse some classes may use toString for debugging
>> purposes and produce very long  strings (including nested objects, etc.).
>> In the code above that would be a huge inefficiency.
>>
>
> Yes, that's part of the motive to have this lookup chain. If there's a
> match higher up, toString() is avoided. Big deal for maps and arrays.
>
>
>>
>> Alex
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 2:06 PM, Nathan Bubna <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> > Shame that i can't remember anymore all my reasons for wanting those
>> > "getAs<Type>" lookups. Wondering why getAsNumber and getAsBoolean are
>> here
>> > too. Anyone else recall the use case? And assuming that i had good
>> reason
>> > (that did happen sometimes <grin>), i wonder why i pushed for bucking
>> the
>> > "to<Type>()" convention.
>> >
>> > As for the literals, the thought of them being used in #if statements
>> in a
>> > template language is cringe-inducing. What's the use-case? Temporary
>> > debugging hacks? If so, part of me thinks maybe only 'true' should even
>> be
>> > allowed.
>> >
>> > On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 7:15 AM, Claude Brisson <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >>>> What is the problem?
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> Velocity "truthiness":
>> > >>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/VELOCITY-692
>> > >>>
>> > >>> It should definitely be part of 2.0. I missed it because the issue
>> was
>> > >>> closed, we should have opened a 2.0 one to remember it.
>> > >>>
>> > >>
>> > >> Thats's the problem if a closed/resolved issue does not have an
>> > >> assignee. You never know who handled it without reading the entire
>> > >> thread. A ticket should always have an assignee if code has been
>> > changed.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > > Here's what had been specified by Nathan at the time (order is
>> > meaningful,
>> > > and falseness seems easier to specify than truth):
>> > >
>> > > $obj is null
>> > > $obj is boolean false
>> > > $obj returns false from getAsBoolean() (provided there is such a
>> method)
>> > > $obj is empty string (CharSequence w/length 0)
>> > > $obj returns true from isEmpty() (provided there is such a method)
>> > > $obj is array of length 0
>> > > $obj returns null from getAsString() (provided there is such a method)
>> > > $obj returns empty string from getAsString() (provided there is such a
>> > > method)
>> > > $obj returns null from getAsNumber() (provided there is such a method)
>> > > $obj returns 0 from length() or size() (provided there is such a
>> method)
>> > > $obj returns empty string from toString() (provided there is such a
>> > method)
>> > >
>> > > Regarding this spec:
>> > >  - I'm not sure about getAsString() ; toString() is usually the
>> standard
>> > > way of getting the String representation and should be enough.
>> > >  - I'm not convinced by the fact that zero should be true. I hear
>> > Nathan's
>> > > point that for a display language, zero is as legitimate as any other
>> > > number to be displayed. But it breaks the principle of least surprise,
>> > > since each and every other language around, when not forbidding number
>> > > towards boolean implicit conversion, consider zero as false.
>> > >
>> > > So I'd rather go with:
>> > >
>> > > $obj is null
>> > > $obj is Boolean false
>> > > $obj is Number zero (whatever Number variant)
>> > > $obj returns false from getAsBoolean() (provided there is such a
>> method)
>> > > $obj is empty string (CharSequence w/length 0)
>> > > $obj returns true from isEmpty() (provided there is such a method)
>> > > $obj is array of length 0
>> > > $obj returns null from getAsNumber() (provided there is such a method)
>> > > $obj returns 0 from length() or size() (provided there is such a
>> method)
>> > > $obj returns empty string from toString() (provided there is such a
>> > method)
>> > >
>> > > Also, I noticed that Velocity weren't very consistent with literals.
>> The
>> > > only literal returning true is the 'true' literal. "foo" is false,
>> > whereas
>> > > it should be consistent with $foo containing "foo".
>> > >
>> > >   Claude
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> > > For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
>
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